Lofland bLOG

We all know about Fred Phelps. I think if I were to label anyone anti-Christ (Martin Luther got to do it, why can’t I?) it would be him.

I do like to keep track of the nuts though. There is a new one I had not heard of before, his name is Darwin Fish. I’d never even heard of him before, but that really is his name (and it has nothing to do with fish with legs on them, just an apparent joke of fate on him). He is really quite a guy. You can read about him (from an opposing side) here. He is against everyone, and really doesn’t leave a side to stand on. It is fun to read really.

Anyway, one reason I like to watch these people is because sometimes when I find myself out on the edge of the mainstream, or the tried and true, I know that I haunt the same dark passages that these guys live in. I very much do not want to “go there” if you know what I mean.

However, the instant I pulled up his site, it was so obvious. Fear and hate. It just drips from the site.

Sorry guys, “fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate is the path to the dark side” And, so, yet another “want to be taken seriously” movement struck down at the first checkpoint.

Never do anything motivated by or that motivates fear and hate.

Now, lest you think I’ve just pinned myself up as impenetrable, I know I am not. Even ask I get irked at the likes of Fred Phelps and Pat Robertson, I know that I can easily fall into the same trap of hate and anger.

Ah well, what can we do? It was God’s decision to submit Himself to the humiliation of having His name carried exclusively by we fallible humans. If it makes us sad to see what people do with His name, how do you think it makes God feel?

I also like to read these people, because the error is so blatant, that sometimes I can find the end results of some of my own lines of thinking before I get there. Kind of a shortcut to learning if an idea is going to turn out to lead to a dead end. For instance, I don wonder sometimes if you can still go to heaven, even if your theology is flawed, and if so, how flawed can it be? David Fish makes it clear that you cannot go to heaven if your theology is flawed, and his Biblical defense of his position clearly proves that he is wrong.

I also enjoy reading the blatant misuse of scripture by crazy people. Why? Because I was subjected to it for several years myself. It just underlines for me the fact that, yes, just because the Bible “says it” does not make it true. You probably cannot understand how much I still battle with ideas in my head that, because of some obscure scripture or example in the Bible, I am condemning myself and my family to hell, or at least hell on earth, by my current actions (like listening to Lawrence Welk music).

Currently Listening to New Magnetic Wonder by Apples in Stereo

I was commenting on Godseeker23’s Xanga, and suddenly it hit me. I am really annoyed that God is not obvious. I mean, it is totally frustrating to me that if He is so big and so amazing and so powerful, how come we can’t see Him?

Then it it me. Wow, duh!

The amazing thing is that we cannot see Him. Imagine, an all powerful, trans-dimensional being that extends across all of the time and space of our universe, and yet, somehow, He keeps a low profile.

Think about it. When is the last time that God accidentally tripped over the cord and pulled the plug on something important like gravity or electrostatic attraction? Not in my memory. Now, of course, maybe he just goes back in time an wipes up His messes, but, well, I kind of doubt it.

What I mean is this. I DO believe that God is involved in our lives. He intervenes in human affairs, and yet. And yet, He never really shows up. I don’t mean things like hidden angle’s having their bodies crushed between cars to soften the impact. I mean things like praying for hope, or for changed lives and hearts and then how it happens. Not like some love potion from Shrek (”Now we’re SEXY!”) but slowly, steadily and hidden from view, so that years later you look back on the time and it seems distant and strange. Did time heal the wound, the hurt and the pain? No, time doesn’t do that, only God does. Like a road doesn’t take us to a destination, a car does, so time doesn’t heal, God does, but we travel over time in the process.

You look out your window and you don’t see God, but imagine this huge all-powerful trans-dimensional being that extends across (and beyond) all of the time and space of our universe secretly moving through every atom of the world you live in.

It is, quite frankly, amazing that he is so smooth that He never shows up, either physically though some odd anomalies in space/time that weird us out or meta-physically through people suddenly making drastic unexplainable changes in their outlook and behavior. I know the second does happen, sometimes, but not as often as we would like. Maybe that is the point, God doesn’t work that way. He stays hidden. After all, God told Moses he would die if he looked at Him. Maybe God is really saving our lives by staying hidden. Hidden both physically and meta-physically.

Maybe that is what all that empty space inside of all of the atoms is for. Even a smooth operator like God needs a little room to operate.

Posted 2/15/2007 11:58 AM

4 Comments:

Well said.

Although, what if God actually is obvious? What if all the things we call “natural” are really miraculous, and we just don’t see them that way because we’re so accustomed to them?
Posted 2/16/2007 7:16 AM by jonathan_camenisch

I agree about the space inside the atoms that is never actually traveled through by the molecules. Good thought.

Since I’m a different kind of learner than perhaps you are, I do find God to rather visible and obvious. I tend to be very auditory, and so being in constant conversation with him tends to make me aware of his presence- which often then manifests itself visually. Like sometimes he points funny or beautful things out to me in my surroundings, and so I see him there. Sometimes I see him playing with animals or children, or helping mothers, or working with men. I think the place I have seen him the most however, is in the clouds-the giant cumlionimbus of the oustreatched Florida sky. His majestic court in all its grandure and size seems to rest rather compfortably in the colorful and colosal sky. But an imagination can do that better than the senses can- so my observation is probably not fair.

Another way I’ve seen Him a lot lately (and this is more solid) is in studying physical geography. Even though we understand most of the forces and laws that govern the scientific rhelm, there are still things that rely completely on “chance” or the choice of God. For example, we can look at an analysis of the atmosphere, with all of the pressure gradients, cloud systems, teperature movements, convective cells, tides, jets stremes, fronts, etc, each of which operate under predictable laws like coriolis effect, gravity, Latent heat levels etc, and even when all the numbers fit into the equation, we cannot be totally sure which way a storm system will travel. This becomes incredibly amazing when you spend weeks studying the complete depth to which humans understand these concepts- it really seems like we should be able to predict- and yet for completely unexplainable reasons, we can’t. That is the hand of God- and if you look out your window with a birds eye view you will see it.

Also, Jared and I have talked about seeing the hand of God in statistics. For some reason there are a certain amount of car accidents a year- no more and no less, and this number remains almost constant- so WHY?! There is absolutely no reason why- other than because God said so. I mean, man has some control over how many air bags work, or seat belts are worn, or speed is driven, but how many times a year- a month even- do you avoid a totall collision by no more than a hairbredth simply because you looked up in time, or turned the wheel at just the right angle? (if your someone like me this analogy becomes particularly potent :). Now multiply that by all the people driving in the world. So why is it that we look up in time just so many times? There really isn’t an adiquate human explaniation. Any time you are really close to a bad wreck and an awful day this realization comes flooding into you; that moment when the personal brushes against the universal- which is primarily an exponent of “Chance” or the Choice of God. - Now look- you got me totally distracted from my school- good job Kristen!
Posted 2/19/2007 7:09 PM by Tegwenava

ok so, i’m an idiot! I put molecules up there in my first sentence instead of electrons- that’s why I’m a lit major Hope you got a good laugh Kristen
Posted 2/19/2007 8:35 PM by Tegwenava

Yeah, isn’t it interesting that he’s invisible?And that you can’t see him unless you *want* to. I guess that’s what pure in heart means.
Posted 2/26/2007 6:38 PM by Godseeker23

Currently Reading In Search of Schrodinger’s Cat: Quantum Physics And Reality by John Gribbin

Someone finally asked what the picture is. I’ve wanted to write about it for a while, so here goes.

I am greatly interested in quantum physics. You know, atoms, electrons and protons, black holes, Einstein, the relevance of time, etc.

It goes along with my theme really. Quantum physics is on the absolute edge of our knowledge of what is, well, what “is” is. I mean, it is getting at the real substance of what everything is made of. Breaking it down into tiny parts and finding out that most of the laws that govern what we call “reality” don’t apply in the subatomic world of what we are made of.

I feel that as we learn more and more about the universe, we learn more about God. I think that the things we learn about atomic structure say something about God. For instance, God is into REALLY big spaces that are seemingly empty, and yet teaming with life. The Ocean is our first example. I mean it is so huge and yet mostly void of anything, and yet every square inch is full of “wee beasties” as Anton van Leeuenhoek so aptly put it. Space is the next example. I was recently looking at a picture from Hubble of a part of space that is 13 BILLION light years away! Now, never minding how the light ever got here (that is a LONG TIME), just try to fathom how far away that is! Google quickly tells me that that 13 billion light years = 7.64204976 × 1022 miles (Google is SO cool), but you cannot honestly even think about that number, much less comprehend it.

Let us try though. Our sun is 93 million miles from us. At 186,000 miles per second, it takes light eight minutes to reach us from the sun. So if you drove your car to the sun at 60 miles per hour, it would take you 177 years to get there! (Best go with a solar powered car. Oh, and bring a friend, because you’ll have to have a child and maybe grandchildren to actually have someone ALIVE when the car gets there!)

(This article may never get finished, I keep looking up facts to check them and finding and learning new stuff and just end up reading about quantum physics instead of writing this article. The stuff is just so fascinating, I can’t get near it without being completely absorbed. I wonder if I emit a neutrino when I am absorbed by a web site?)

So anyway you can see that space is REALLY BIG. What about us? We are not really full of empty space are we? No? How about lead, it is really dense, right?

Here is how dense lead is, quote:

“Let’s take your typical lead atom for instance. A natural lead atom has 82 protons and somewhere around 126 neutrons held together in its nucleus (center of the atom). Whizzing around the nucleus are 82 electrons in several different energy orbits. To give you an idea of the relative size, let’s assume that nucleus with a total of 208 protons and neutrons is the size of a two-inch-wide ball. The first set of two orbiting electrons (in our expanded world their size would be 1/50 of an inch wide) would be 19 feet away from the ball, the next set of eight electrons would be at a distance of 76 feet and the farthest orbiting electrons would be one mile away. If we had two balls close together—bonded as found in lead metal—the distance between them would be over two miles apart in our relative world defined above. The main reason I want to throw these numbers out is that I want to make a point that most of an atom and most of a piece of lead is space!”

Got that? If the nucleus of a lead atom was two inches across, the farthest electrons in the atom would be a mile away from it! That is a LOT of empty space (relatively speaking)!

Now, there are all sorts of wild things going on in that empty space. Virtual particles are constantly showing up and disappearing in anything we consider “empty space.” Even the particles themselves are not fixed in any place. The presence or absence of an electron at any point cannot be “determined,” but rather we can simply calculate the probability of its existence in a given spot. If we actually conduct an experiment to “prove” the existence of the electron, we end up simply causing a certain outcome, but we know from math and experiments, that we really cannot ever know where it is. Schrodinger’s poor cat knows all too well about this problem. He is still waiting, to this day, to know if he is dead or not, and what is really wacky, is read about Schordinger’s cat, but put yourself in there. Where is your spirit while you wait to be dead or undead? Purgatory suddenly sounds like a very logically appealing idea!

Anyway, all very wild stuff, and all true, and all an insight into the mind of God himself! He did make this stuff, and He thought of it.

Originally I wanted an atom for my picture, but I couldn’t find a picture I liked. Of course, no one can see an atom, we only know they exist, first from math, and then from experiments. We have no idea what they really look like. In fact, I’m not sure you can look at them. (See any analogies to God there?) The typical model shows electrons “orbiting” the nucleus, but that is really just a mental picture for us to understand the math. The electrons don’t neatly “orbit around” but they fly all over the place (although they do have specific “areas” they must occupy), and only statistical probability tells us where each atom is most likely to be at any given time.

I started thinking about what is one of the coolest things related to the study of quantum physics, and that is the particle accelerator. These are huge machines that make up mile long circles. In them is equipment used to take these little atoms and get them moving very very fast and run them into each other and then see what happens. It is kind of like if you wanted to see what sort of stuff would come out if you ran two trucks into each other at several thousand miles per hour. You would need a VERY long road to get them going that fast, and using a circle would help. Really it is just NASCAR for geeks (the going fast part, not the running into each other).

However, while my heart skips a beat every time I see a picture of the Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory. I’m not sure it evokes the right feeling and picture for the average reader.

I went looking for pictures of the internals of these accelerators, but, while they evoke deep emotions in me also, most of them just look like a lot of metal and wires, which, while post 911, that does strike terror into the hearts of most people, still didn’t get the point across.

Besides, I wanted something from history too, because while we are making great strides daily in our knowledge of quantum physics, I really think we are at about the equivalent of where we were in about 1905 with quantum physics in our understanding of Christ. So I looked into particle accelerator lore and history, and what did I discover, but that Van de Graff generators were originally used to accelerate particles for experiments. Yeah, you know, those cool steel balls you put your hand on at the science museum and your hair stands up! Apparently those are also really very useful in the study of quantum physics.

Basically A Van de Graaff generator could be integrated with a particle accelerator. The generator produces the high tensions (in the megavolt range) that accelerate the particles. I believe that this was really the purpose for which these nifty items were invented. The hair thing was just a novelty that keeps them around today.

And so I found this image of a 40 foot high Van de Graff generator set up in an aircraft hangar, in 1933 at that most venerable institution, MIT.

So, in short, the picture is part of the history of quantum physics research. (A very cool part I might add.) I hope to be part of the history of a new and deeper understanding of God. What does that mean?

Well, let me leave you with this short explanation of what it means to me. In the early part of the last century, quantum physics was leaping and bounding like crazy. However, it went in spurts. You see, each new “discovery” was often simply the acceptance of some new idea, that was so crazy, no one was willing to even consider it before. The old guys (anyone over 30) were usually so set in their understanding of classical physics, that they were often unwilling to even explore new ideas. So all of the truly great leaps forward came from grad students who had no reputation at stake. They had sharp minds, and were eager, but most of all, this was all new to them, and they were open to new ideas that shattered previous understanding of the universe. Then, though, they would develop reputations of their own, and became slow to propose new and crazy ideas. So it would take another group of young whippersnappers to make the next break through.

Openness to new ideas, and a willingness to stake one’s reputation on a questionable suposition that was very different from the accepted standard were required for making progress in the field of quantum physics.

I believe that time has come for God’s people to do this. To stop their unwillingness to try new ideas, just because it has never been that way before or for the sake of not being made a fool of, and forge ahead with new ideas to solve problems. I am not saying throw away the old. Quantum physics actually works along side classical mechanics, but without quantum physics, classical mechanics could not exist. If we don’t allow ourselves to explore God more deeply though, we are going to find ourselves in big trouble. I am also not saying we just accept any new idea. The way science works is that you take a known incongruity between what you think reality to be, and what you see and come up with ideas of how to bring these together. Then you test these ideas. First you test them on the black board, then in the lab, and finally you watch reality to see if it lines up. Sometimes ideas take years to come to maturity. Sometimes theories go about as considered “truth” for decades, only to be proven bogus by some “whippersnapper,” but that is how the world God made for us works.

I like to think on the edge of our understanding of God, and then try to stretch that boundry, even if it scares people, or makes me sound foolish.

So that is what the picture is, and why I chose it.

Posted 2/13/2007 12:24 AM

8 Comments:

Thanks. I like your quote too: “God is really good at keeping a low profile that way.
Posted 2/14/2007 5:43 PM by Godseeker23 - delete - block user

That’s a pretty good explanation. I don’t get the cat thing; guess I’ll have to work on that.

Let’s say the year was 3007. Some young genius decides “I think this quantum mechanics stuff is bogus. We need to think on the edge, push the limit, get out of the box.”

But he has no shred of evidence to show quantum mechanics was bogus. In fact, he doesn’t even understand the claims of quantum mechanics or the math behind it. He just has a 13th-grade “understanding” of it (that is, a non-understanding). So he goes about grappling with problems that were solved a thousand years ago — at least solved more plausibly than anything he will come up with.

This is the average theological discussion in today’s American evangelicalism.
Posted 2/15/2007 9:15 AM by jonathan_camenisch

Do you think the problems in today’s church (of which there is a lot of evidence) would be largely solved by returning to a more strict adherence to the doctrine of the reformation as it was taught 1000+ years ago?

Personally, I don’t, but it is a point I’m willing to consider.

Do you have examples?
Posted 2/15/2007 11:42 AM by ThinkingOnTheEdge

Well, I could try to answer that, but it’s really not the point. “Reformed” didn’t exist 1000 years ago, but a lot of important thought did. People had wrestled with the Bible’s teachings, with who God has revealed Himself to be, etc. Some of them had great minds and very Godly hearts.

They didn’t finish the job, mind you. But if we ignore their efforts altogether, then why should anyone pay attention to us?

I believe the study of Scripture and of God is a body activity. We’re in this together–not only with our contemporaries, but with those who have gone before.
Posted 2/15/2007 6:55 PM by beccachino

Oops. Wrong login. How did th…

Oh well.
Posted 2/16/2007 7:18 AM by jonathan_camenisch

Since you don’t get notified of my comments on my blog, here: http://www.xanga.com/jonathan_camenisch/569064555/item.html
Posted 2/16/2007 7:20 AM by jonathan_camenisch

Okay, I haven’t read thoroughly on Schrodinger’s cat, so maybe this question is premature and stupid, but here goes:

What about God? Since he sees what is happening all the time, doesn’t that mean it’s real right now, even if no one else can see it?
Posted 3/9/2007 12:43 PM by Godseeker23

Well, God could only see the state of the cat in the sense that he can see the future. The state is not yet determined, so it cannot be known. Seeing the future is knowing what will happen. However, if you had a vision of the future, it would be a blur, because the future is constantly changing. Much of it has not even yet been determined.

The question of whether God really sees the future is kind of complex, because, from our standpoint, it has not yet happened.

God may know what will happen, purely out of wisdom or understanding, but to actually be there just does not work for us.

Of course, most believe that God lives outside of our time, and that is not actually a state that we can grasp.

So, in short, no, it does not mean that it is “real right now” in any sense of the word “real” that we as humans can utilize. No more than the return of Christ is “real.” It will happen, and God knows when, but since it has not happened yet, it is not “real.” The point is that the cat’s state isn’t just unknown, it has not yet been determined.
Posted 3/9/2007 2:32 PM by ThinkingOnTheEdge

Micah, this is really for you. You need to listen to this commentary when it comes on line on NPR (about 7:30 tonight):

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7138254

I was on the path of working to remove any motivation in my life caused by fear before I met Micah, however, in the years after he was allowed to wear shorts outside of the house (after he was 22 I think) Micah had to make up for lost time. He got into snow cross and motor cross, and, well, his blog has some lovely hospital stories now.

Micah really is not into running form danger, though, because he spent his life being forced to run from anything that might be harmful.

Lately I have found a new form of fear that I have. Intimidation. I am easily intimidated. The funny thing is, that you can both be intimidated and intimidate, often both at once. Sometimes I even try to intimidate in response to being intimidated. Kind of like a scared dog that barks and snarls. Being intimidated, though, is the same as fear.

Anyway, the above commentary on NPR is really good on the topic of not running from danger. I think Micah would approve.

Posted 2/2/2007 3:35 PM

2 Comments:

No wonder you hate your job.
Posted 2/7/2007 10:03 AM by Godseeker23

BTW, what’s that picture of?
Posted 2/7/2007 10:06 AM by Godseeker23

Ah, what a sad scary world we live in:

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/02/01/boston.bombscare/index.html

Honestly, the whole town gets its knickers in a knot, and the mayor is still going on about how “irresponsible” this was, over a few LED’s and a battery. I always thought of Boston as a rather progressive town too.

Time was when this would have been considered funny, but apparently old Ben Loddin has done his work well. He has turned us into a bunch of paranoid ninnies. Every time someone drops a nine volt battery into a public trash can we have to call out the bomb squad now.

I will admit, it would be nice if the sign wasn’t making an obscene gesture (although I wouldn’t have actually realized that is what it was doing without being told), and it is sad that it was a stunt used to promote what is apparently a rather raunchy show.

The result would have been the same if it was Mickey Mouse though, and it is just sad that we are so paranoid now days. I think that is the real goal of terrorists, and it is working. In olden days, a huge part of an army’s offense was intimidation. Well, I think that offense is working very well on us now.

So the next time you see an LED sign on the side of the road, show Alceida that you are not intimidated, and just give that bundle of scary looking wires the finger!

Posted 2/1/2007 1:28 PM

5 Comments:

Interesting times.
Do you have any constructive advice for the Boston authorities?
I guess if it’s such a raunchy show, maybe this was a good stunt to reach their intended audience. I wonder how much it will cost them.
Posted 2/2/2007 7:46 AM by jonathan_camenisch

You bring a level of considered through, intelligence and wisdom to Xanga that is very annoying.
No, no constructive advice.
Yes, the truth is, I think that the show’s audience will grow exponentially due to this. Though I am sure no one really intended this response, and no one will publicly acknowledge any benefit, nor will anyone try it again.
The point is that the terrorists have won. We are paranoid as a society. It isn’t just the Boston authorities, it is the entire society. They were motivated by scared people with cell phones, and are commended by scared people in political office, who were voted in by scared people watching CNN and FOX News.

We honestly can’t be safe from everything anyway. If anyone really wants to wreak havoc, they can do it. They just have to be smart and patient. Fortunately, most smart and patient people are more interested in making their cell phones play MP3’s than in blowing things up.

You know, in Iraq every person and car is a potential threat. I see a few dozen cars outside of my window. Any one of them could be packed full of fertilizer. Should I be scared? Probably.
Posted 2/2/2007 12:25 PM by ThinkingOnTheEdge

Right. I see your point.

I just can’t help but look for some solution. They’ve won a lot, but can we do anything about it? Idunno.
Posted 2/2/2007 1:17 PM by jonathan_camenisch

yah, it would be nice if they did put LED signs by the side of the road… would definitely save some lives. guess we’d better start safety education for terrorists now. If we can educate them in aircraft operation AND air traffic control (which we do) why not safety? Who knows, maybe rational thought would defeat fanatic extremism and they’d change their minds. then again, maybe not…
Posted 2/9/2007 4:22 PM by miracles_start_now